Enduro Hawk?

[6]

Yes. We have all seen THE Enduro Hawk. But..

If you where going to build an Enduro Hawk, what would you do to it? A dirt road, mild trail, adventure bike. Comfortable enough on the pavement but ready to see where that fire road really ends after you pass the end gate.


if you had a budget, or no budget, what would you do?

To me, I think if the same things I would for a race bike... Loose weight, get suspension under it, make it controllable in its natural habitat and make it able to crash...

But it would have to be done an entirely different way.

I've been thinking on this a while. Interested in the forum's thoughts.

[jspeed53]

Think BIG WIDE TIRES. The weight may be the biggest issue ... especially deep sand and on knarley narrow goat trails.
I did a little dual-sporting at Honda and won’t forget a Team Dual Dogs ride from L.A. to Lake Isabella. I rode a company Transalp with that skinny front tire. Both my knees were hammered wrestling the weight and saving it from going down at every soft sandy wash. Toward the end, call it fatigue, I dumped it good ... cracked and scratched all the plastics. Too much weight on the front end! When I returned it to the Service Department at Honda, I got two opposite reactions ... one was a demented admiration for the challenge I faced, the other was disgust for returning a thoroughly winked up unit. Needless to say, everybody in the company heard about it ... my reputation tattooed as a Fearless Hero or Brainless Zero.

[frinesi2]

Just yesterday I was talking to my buddy (an avid dirt squirter) about thinking of getting my own off road bike some day and he's like "hey I wonder if anybody has done an enduro Hawk?"

Before I could even type a reply he's texting me the link to THE Enduro Hawk build and I'm like yeah, man, I've seen it. We've aaaaaaall seen it.

Getting more rear suspension travel will probably be major, but I could be wrong. If you do, though, you'll want a real chain tensioner, not just a chain roller.

Getting the weight off is key, I agree.

[frinesi2]

But then I'm like ... this is a thing:

https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2020-Honda-CRF250L-Rally-5017796681

https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2021-Honda%C2%AE-CRF300L-ABS-5018039098

[riot]

Flat Tracker of course. I'm actually thinking about it. We have a completely open twins class in nearby Wisconsin, and I have a bunch of spare hawk parts. Also, 'Hooligan' is an exploding class, and basically the only rule is a street twin with frame and engine from the same bike.

It's been done (Stevie Coles was the first I heard of years ago), but I think I could do better:



That one uses a KTM swingarm IIRC.

If done properly, in a 'framer' it could make a decent replica of an RS750 as well - which is really a cousin of the Hawk, though an XRV750 motor would be the bet if I was getting all spendy:



There is a whole article on a team (M3R) that is still racing classic RS's:

https://www.americanflattrack.com/news/view/soul-survivor-mac-mcgrews-honda-rs750

[NumLock]

I just bought a Triumph Tiger XCA. Thought about modding a Hawk so one of my riding buddies can explore some dirt roads with me. So I’ve been thinking of buying some off road-ish tires for a pair of my spare Hawk wheels. Some 60/40 tires should do. I would only plan for it to explore some fire roads.

That’s all I was thinking of doing. Just tires. But… if I had more of a budget. Hmm. Probably too rich for my blood to make the suspension off road capable. So I’d be happy with a plush suspension setup. Then add handlebars instead of clip ons. Then some how get some metal crash bars and a skid plate.
Again. Nothing crazy. Just dirt roads and maybe some easy trails. Nothing technical.
More of a Scrambler Hawk than an Enduro Hawk.

[ricksax]

I just bought a Triumph Tiger XCA. Thought about modding a Hawk so one of my riding buddies can explore some dirt roads with me. So I’ve been thinking of buying some off road-ish tires for a pair of my spare Hawk wheels. Some 60/40 tires should do. I would only plan for it to explore some fire roads.

That’s all I was thinking of doing. Just tires. But… if I had more of a budget. Hmm. Probably too rich for my blood to make the suspension off road capable. So I’d be happy with a plush suspension setup. Then add handlebars instead of clip ons. Then some how get some metal crash bars and a skid plate.
Again. Nothing crazy. Just dirt roads and maybe some easy trails. Nothing technical.
More of a Scrambler Hawk than an Enduro Hawk.

Yes, maybe a Scrambler Hawk. Maybe fitted with Mitas Sumo Rain Tires or Shinko 705s. Then a Protech handlebar conversion and longer cables all around. Then of course, there is the question of ground clearance and things start getting expensive. But probably okay for fireroads. In a pinch, I rode my Hawk through three miles of freshly graded dirt on the Nestucca Access Road on street tires, and felt very confident at moderate speeds.

I got into Hawks via the TransAlp back door. The TransAlp was a styling exercise, essentially a heavy, mellow street bike with too much plastic, lacking in power and brakes. But I liked the engine, so Transalp went away, several Hawks came in.

[6]

Yes, maybe a Scrambler Hawk. Maybe fitted with Mitas Sumo Rain Tires or Shinko 705s. Then a Protech handlebar conversion and longer cables all around. Then of course, there is the question of ground clearance and things start getting expensive. But probably okay for fireroads. In a pinch, I rode my Hawk through three miles of freshly graded dirt on the Nestucca Access Road on street tires, and felt very confident at moderate speeds.

I got into Hawks via the TransAlp back door. The TransAlp was a styling exercise, essentially a heavy, mellow street bike with too much plastic, lacking in power and brakes. But I liked the engine, so Transalp went away, several Hawks came in.

I took my 929 5 miles down the train tracks, the into some trails, a sandpit and eventually got stuck on a big up hill climb.

It had d207's on it. This was I. 2017, so they where 15 years old even then.


jspeed53 tires are definitely key, and I was also thinking wider than narrowed. It wins be carving up a motocross track.. just trails.

For rear suspension what would stop you from sticking in a dirt bike shock, something that didn't have a link and may have been heavy.

Inch or two out back would be nice. There are some longer 41mm front ends out there.

A rider bar setup is key.

I can make a skid plate all my by self (as ted used to say).

I learned last week I can cut and re-aim/re-angle an exhaust..

Get the foot pegs a little more up and under you..

We have a start. That probably (minus the tires) <$500

[drvmax]

Someone mentioned Shinko 705's. The typical failure mode is separation of the tread from the carcass. I didn't believe it until it happened to me. Once those tires get around 50% wear, time to swap them out for new or different. I'm going with road tires since my commute has changed from 10 miles to 140 miles and those Shinkos don't like the highway.

For fire road riding, a decent set of 80/20 or 60/40 tires and a custom engine guard would be sufficient, I would think. DosHonduros took a couple of ragged out GL1200's on the Washington BDR with 705's. Not sure how many problems they had, but their videos made it seem like they had a blast.

[mparker]

I took my 929 5 miles down the train tracks, the into some trails, a sandpit and eventually got stuck on a big up hill climb.

It had d207's on it. This was I. 2017, so they where 15 years old even then.


jspeed53 tires are definitely key, and I was also thinking wider than narrowed. It wins be carving up a motocross track.. just trails.

For rear suspension what would stop you from sticking in a dirt bike shock, something that didn't have a link and may have been heavy.

Inch or two out back would be nice. There are some longer 41mm front ends out there.

A rider bar setup is key.

I can make a skid plate all my by self (as ted used to say).

I learned last week I can cut and re-aim/re-angle an exhaust..

Get the foot pegs a little more up and under you..

We have a start. That probably (minus the tires) <$500

I think alot of KTMs are or were direct mount shocks.

[6]

I think alot of KTMs are or were direct mount shocks.

I had the same thought. I know mcgrath was always complaining when he was on KTM because they had no link.


But need to find a 350lb ish bike..

[jspeed53]

Okay ... now I know what we’re talking about ... this post should have been “Trail Hawk” or “Hawk Scrambler”. I’ll go back to sleep

[6]

Okay ... now I know what we’re talking about ... this post should have been “Trail Hawk” or “Hawk Scrambler”. I’ll go back to sleep

Man, feel free to go as radical as you want with ideas.

My hold back is that I actually want to build one, and I'm broke. Making a hawk that can handle a motocross track will take big $. But give me some ground clearance, tires and decent suspension and I'll take a bike down almost any trail.

Any performance over that is a +

[riot]

I find that the gas tank will be a major limitation. With the stock tank, I don’t think you can create a riding position that is far enough forward for off-road use.

The other limit will be swingarm length. You might not get enough ride height with a reasonable swingarm angle. I think the KTM swingarm could fix this, though a 19” rear rim would help as well.

[riot]

Should we do a group buy on spoked SSSA hubs? I could probably design one, though it is a little beyond my capability to machine one. Maybe WW or eyhonda could produce them…