A relay is a Relay is a RELAY ???

[hawkLer]

ok recently my fuel pump relay crapped out on me.

I've heard that any/every type of electronic relay (ie. flasher relay, etc.) is the same as the next, so for the quick fix I went to Autozone (horrible place) and bought a "flasher relay". I did a BS 'twist wires together and tapejob' and all seemed to be working fine until one came loose and everything went kapoot! so i went back to the old bypass method to get it home/ ride it around 'til I had time to hook it back up.
anyway, hooked it back up (the generic/flasher relay) a few days ago and it just crapped out again. I've yet to check whether it just came unattached again or not but I'm wondering this-
ARE ALL RELAYS THE SAME?
should I bother with ordering a new fuel pump relay that will actually plug into my 3P connector from the wiring harness or should I just take the generic relay and make sure it's attached firmly and call it a day?

Hoping that someone can give me a simple yes or no, not asking for any huge answer. (but would appreciate them also!)

thanks, dudes & dudettes!

[hawkLer]

hmm, i guess the knowledgable and helpful people only read and post during the day.
anyway, i went back to the generic fuel pump relay and attached it again and things seem to be fine. still not sure if that is the answer to my question.
i've been getting really rough running and lack of power when i hold the throttle at the same place without fluctuating it. for example, if i crack it open off the start and then settle into a mid-revs cruise, it starts and continues "sputtering, coughing, rasping, bubbling, burping, missing", etc., whatever you wanna call it.
but if i crack it wider power comes on hard, as it should i think, and if i'm not mistaken, stays normal until i get to super high revs (for a hawk, that is) and then it seems to kinda "flatten hard" if you know what i mean- kinda dies and sputters and bogs.

Any of this have anything to do with the generic pump relay???
i figure it's a carburetion thing but i can't really imagine what to do to fix it. leaner, richer? up to 5th clip on factory pro slide needle? turn mixture screw in? out? adjust floats?
also I doubt my carbs are sync'd perfectly as i've been trying but can't figure them out.

Help a brother out.

"Do everything fully, to the best of your ability everyday... Try is a word for the weak and/or unwilling"
-anonymous

[DefTrap]

Eliminate the pump and relay by brimming the tank and connecting the fuel outlet directly to the carbs. If you still have the same symptoms you can rule out the pump and relay.

[Doc]

Relay? There is a relay?

The missing,gurgling,sputtering, spitting in the middle of the range sounds like a carb problem, I am thinking pilot jet but I am not positive. Sounds very lean. Having the same problem with my XR100R

[HypnoToad]

I had a simular problem with a moped a few years back. just use compress air to blow out the neddles and wow what a difference it made.

[bill-ns]

Umm... flasher relay? Do you want the fuel pump to turn off and on constantly?

Sounds like you've got other problems, but you definitely don't want a flasher relay. A relay is a relay... until it's a flasher relay.
Just pick up a bosch type relay...
http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm for wiring tips...

Bill

[NT696]

FWIW:
Flasher relays are not meant to run all the time, so the coil wiring is designed only to pull the contacts and then let go. If it is pulling the contacts constantly, it heats up too much and burns out.

[hawkLer]

but if you've ever listened to or watched how the fuel pump works with the pump relay you'll see that it runs in small bursts. controlled by the CDI, the higher you rev, the more frequently the bursts happen. this is because the fuel pump is not meant to be constantly on, nor does it need to be.
if i may disagree, and risk looking like an ass if i find out i'm wrong, and also possibly pissing some of you off (i don't mean to) i think that a relay actually is the same all around. why a turn signal flashes evenly no matter what revs you're at is because it's not hooked up to a CDI, but a constant power source such as a light bulb and merely gets tripped causing it to flash.
(honestly, i just made that last part up but i think i'm on the right path with a lack of the correct vocabulary to explain it perfectly)

electrical folks, any input?

DefTrap- good idea. Also, my carbs may be gummed up too, so thanks to you guys for the suggestions there.

Anyone know about carb syncing, whether that might cause stumbles?

thanks so much, friends...

[DefTrap]

Take it one stage at a time. You suspect the pump or relay so eliminate those first. Then move onto the carbs etcetera. I doubt it's the carb sync, I have to say.

[NT696]

Yes, ive seen / listened to how the feul pump works. It gets power all the time, but a pressure switch inside runs it only when needed. I think it is set somewhere around 3psi or something. Its the switch causing the 'heartbeat', not the relay. The CDI only lets the relay engage if the bike is running, and it is upright. It gets power all the time under those conditions. It runs faster under load because it needs to pump more gas to the engine. A big bored Hawk in a hard race with a stock fuel pump, might have the pump running almost all the time.
Flasher relays work something different. They depend on the electrical load they are switching to make them 'flip-flop' on and off. Thats why when you switch to LED bulbs in the turn signals, the flashing rate is all wrong. (LEDs have almost no load.)
Dont worry about disagreeing, it would be a really boring place if we all thaought the exact same.
Hope this helps a little.
Electrical people: did I explain the flasher relay right?[/i]

[brewsy]

I think you are spot on with the flashers. Not enough load and they blink like crazy!
Hawkler is right I think in that all relays are just that BUT the big difference is the rating of them.
If NT is right and the relay is energised all the time then the relay needs to be able to handle the current that the pumps needs without burning out.

If I had to guess mate I'd say its carb woe's rather than the pump...

Marc

[Hanadad]

I agree, one thing at a time. Get passed the relay issue first. It seems that when you bypass the relay, there is no problem. Did I remember that right? That would point to problems somewhere in the relay circuit. The other guys have already said much about relays. Relays work on a common principle, but they are not universally interchangable. They are basically an electromagnetic switch. If you look at an electrical diagram of the bike, they are sometimes shown as a coil (electromagnet) and contacts(switch). As switches, they come as SPDT(single pole double throw), DPDT, and so forth. In fact, that picture will give you a good idea of what goes on inside. It is also often printed on the relay itself. If you google "relay schematic" you can check out the diagrams. As with anything electrical, you need to use a component that fits the spec. Example, the starter solonoid works in the same manner as a relay. Obviously, the flasher unit would not be a good substitute for a couple of reasons. Someone mentioned a Bosch relay. If it's 12V and the load side can handle the continuous draw (amperes) of the pump, you should be golden.

Jeff