wanting to stand up under braking..

[MrDude_1]

hey,
it isnt a huge issue with the hawk or anything, but its annoying at times.

if im entering a corner, and still easing off the brake, the bike doesnt want to lean at all until im totally off the brake.. anytime i put the front brake on, she'll want to stand up..

now i know i shouldnt be braking hard on the street going into a turn or anything, but id really like to have her tip in a little easier when the front is still loaded a bit by the brake.

is there something easy i should play with? ive tried moving the forks up and down some, but i really like where they're at now... the ONLY thing id like to change is that tip in under braking. i dont have an adjustible shock (yet) so i cant really change the rear ride height. i do have a fully adjustible front fork, but i dont think theres anything i can do there that would help.
i suppose i could cut/bend/weld the frame for a diff steering head angle, but thats a bit more extreme then id like for something like this...

ideas?

[Stevenjhow]

Do ALL of your braking before you enter a corner. One of the most important things they keep repeating in the MSF class I took. When you touch the brakes, your forward momentum will throw you forward (straight instead of into the corner)

[MrDude_1]

Do ALL of your braking before you enter a corner. One of the most important things they keep repeating in the MSF class I took. When you touch the brakes, your forward momentum will throw you forward (straight instead of into the corner)

yes.. thats 100% good advice for normal street driving.

on the track (or when im riding like an idiot) you only do 90+ % of your braking before hand... there are times where you're still coming off the brakes as you tip into the corner.
it just feels like im fighting the bike to lean.. as soon as im off the brake, she falls over like normal, but the fight when shes on the brake is noticable.. even though im not braking hard.

now if im riding at the pace and enjoying her, then its no big deal. i brake before hand, and she turns great under power.




what brought this on was coming to work this morning... there was a car tailgating me waaay too close as i was coming up to my intersection for my left.. i flashed my brakes, but he didnt back off.. so i leaned in so i was into the intersection and he was to my side, instead of my rear.. then i braked upright... and trailed the brakes just a tad as i went into the actual corner.
like i said, i wont normally be on the brake entering a corner on the street.. but i just dont like how much she fights me when i need to do it.

[Logicus]

mine does the exact same thing.... if I have entered a turn and have to do any breaking at all, the bike pulls hard to straighten up. I've learned to just wrap my right hand around the throttle and maybe even change to a lower gear (before the turn of course) and modulate the throttle through the curve. When I was trying to break at all through the curves, I would find myself hanging way off just to compensate even on light turns. Now I just trust the bike and let her roll right through the curve.

[MrDude_1]

mine does the exact same thing.... if I have entered a turn and have to do any breaking at all, the bike pulls hard to straighten up. I've learned to just wrap my right hand around the throttle and maybe even change to a lower gear (before the turn of course) and modulate the throttle through the curve. When I was trying to break at all through the curves, I would find myself hanging way off just to compensate even on light turns. Now I just trust the bike and let her roll right through the curve.

yea... yea yea..
so i suppose this concensus would be "hey travis.. if you ride the right way, you dont have to worry about it!" lol

its just annoying.. other then that, i love how she handles.. i suppose when everything else feels right, we tend to nitpick about the remaining non-important things.. lol.

[nt650hawk]

Breaking in a turn with any bike will always lead to the bike standing up. Some thing called physics. To get the bike to lean further down in a turn squeeze harder till you loose traction and end up shitting yourself / bounce off the pavement and end up sliding to a stop . You never want to be on the break at full lean. Bad things man.

There is trailbreaking.

Throttling on slightly will help (Slightly) to steer the bike in a turn. But watch out for Mr. Traction.

[MrDude_1]

Breaking in a turn with any bike will always lead to the bike standing up. Some thing called physics. To get the bike to lean further down in a turn squeeze harder till you loose traction and end up shitting yourself / bounce off the pavement and end up sliding to a stop . You never want to be on the break at full lean. Bad things man.

There is trailbreaking.

Throttling on slightly will help (Slightly) to steer the bike in a turn. But watch out for Mr. Traction.

yea, well i know it will always want to stand up some. thats just physics.
but mine fights me more then the my old R1...

i wont worry about it or anything, but its strange how much she fights about it compared to other bikes.

[nt650hawk]

Try raising the rear. If you can.

[Rydtheslyd]

yea, well i know it will always want to stand up some. thats just physics.
but mine fights me more then the my old R1...

i wont worry about it or anything, but its strange how much she fights about it compared to other bikes.

all bikes do it, as its part of physics. maybe you are more intune with your hawk and you are getting more feedback allowing you to pick out things like this, and on your R1 you might not.

[Stevenjhow]

Do ALL of your braking before you enter a corner. One of the most important things they keep repeating in the MSF class I took. When you touch the brakes, your forward momentum will throw you forward (straight instead of into the corner)

yes.. thats 100% good advice for normal street driving.

on the track (or when im riding like an idiot) you only do 90+ % of your braking before hand... there are times where you're still coming off the brakes as you tip into the corner.
it just feels like im fighting the bike to lean.. as soon as im off the brake, she falls over like normal, but the fight when shes on the brake is noticable.. even though im not braking hard.

now if im riding at the pace and enjoying her, then its no big deal. i brake before hand, and she turns great under power.




what brought this on was coming to work this morning... there was a car tailgating me waaay too close as i was coming up to my intersection for my left.. i flashed my brakes, but he didnt back off.. so i leaned in so i was into the intersection and he was to my side, instead of my rear.. then i braked upright... and trailed the brakes just a tad as i went into the actual corner.
like i said, i wont normally be on the brake entering a corner on the street.. but i just dont like how much she fights me when i need to do it.

Oh ok, I miss understood, I thought you were talking about normal riding....

[MrDude_1]

Try raising the rear. If you can.

i cant right now... i need a new shock.
i kinda like that one with the piggy back resivior that JD has... i think its a wilbur or something like that...
anyway, i will once i get a new rear shock.. but until then i cant..
i looked at making a relocation bracket, but decided the hiperform subframe was stressing the top of the rear part of the frame enough... i dont want it to break.. lol.

all bikes do it, as its part of physics. maybe you are more intune with your hawk and you are getting more feedback allowing you to pick out things like this, and on your R1 you might not.

yea, its been a couple years since ive ridden it, so maybe i just forgot.
or maybe i was just used to fighting that bike, meanwhile, the hawk never seems to fight about anything...

Oh ok, I miss understood, I thought you were talking about normal riding....

naa. normal riding id slow first, then pour on the hawkpower so you get that nice "rush" feeling coming off the corner.

[joel]

If you're comparing it to your R1,you've got a couple other things going on.First off is that the Hawk has a whole bunch more engine braking and when you roll off the throttle,the thing does want to stand up more.There's the whole physics of the crank,polar moment of inertia blahbitty blah too as to why a Hawk handles the way it does...

The best advice had been given: stuffing a bike hard on the brakes into turns whilst street riding is a good way to meet a car or Armco.Being smooth is the best step in getting to be safe and fast...I'd like to think I do a decent job of the former as I ain't much of the latter.

[Crash]

This is my favorite thread in a long long time. I hope it goes on for awhile.

[MrDude_1]

This is my favorite thread in a long long time. I hope it goes on for awhile.

dare i ask WHY? lol

[thepathlesstaken]

Mr Dude (and anyone else for that matter), might I suggest that you pick up a copy of:

http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Science-Roadracing-Motorcycles-Procedures/dp/096504503X

Excellent book for any motorcyclist (road or race).