Really Really Stuck Spindle

[LeftRightLeftThrottle]

The side collar is still holding the cush drive and the spindle isn't motivated by PB Blaster and a hammer. Anyone else had a little corrosion holding their spindle? Don't want to get too rough with it and end up messing up the seals in the eccentric.

[LeftRightLeftThrottle]

So I'm back from my vacation in the mountains (you try to have fun for a week in the mountains without your Hawk)

The spindle has been soaked and soaked and soaked with penetrating oil and I've splintered two pieces of wood between the hammer and spindle, still no movement.

I called a mechanic at the Honda place that had a good reputation (he told me he used to race a Hawk) he said he'd never had a problem like this but the only thing he could recommend would be to get a couple of pry bars and "carefully" try to separate the cush drive from the spindle, but I don't have suitable pry bars and I'm not sure if that would work or not.

I'm thinking that:

a.) The dust from the disintegrated cush drive has made its way between the splines and the cush drive and thats whats holding it.

b.) Its just the side collar thats stuck by a little corrosion that the penetrating oil is somehow not penetrating.

c.) The cush drive rubbers disintegrated long before I realized it and daily riding without the rubbers has welded the splines.

If _ Then:

a.) If penetrating oil isn't getting to the splines or loosening the rubber dust what will?

b.) If its just the side collar maybe I could drill and tap some holes in the side collar and attach a slide hammer? I can't think of another way to get a grip on it to get it out if thats what's holding the assembly on the spindle.

c.) I'm royally f*cked and I need to find a new swingarm unless there's a way to somehow press out the spindle. I don't see how given the shape of the swingarm.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Prayers?

Thanks and Happy Hawking!

[Doc]

Heat to maybe expand one part and ice to shrink the other...

[kip]

When you say side collar which piece do you mean exactly? From memory (questionable) I think there is a washer under the big nut and that is all that is holding both halves of the cush drive on. I don't think it pulled off easy though. I took out the entire eccentric and all, not sure how far you are planning to go. But if you take off the rear wheel and rear caliper so the whole spindle can slide in the eccentric. I believe a couple of taps on the nut end of the spindle with a rubber mallet loosened my cush drive enough to pull it off. This is putting a side load on the eccentric bearing though I believe so I guess I wouldn't go crazy on it. I am doubting rust/corrosion only as an issue (see pics of my bike ). Maybe you have already tried all of this? Pics of your current state might help too.

I am not sure how far you are from me (or if I would actually be any help), but I might be able to come out one night and try and help you with it if you want.

[jaybird]

I don't know if I'm looking at the right part but you did loosen 23 right?

http://www.hawkworks.net/hawkfiche/swingarm.html

[LeftRightLeftThrottle]

Doc:

Gonna try heat and ice tonight after work, I'm going to use a heat gun because I really don't want to melt the rubber seals. I'm hoping that will be enough to expand the final driven flange. Then I was going to pack the spindle with ice...


Kip:

http://www.hawkworks.net/hawkfiche/rear_wheel.html

The side collar is part no. 10 on the above diagram. It doesn't really show the orientation but the side collar is behind the nut and lock washer (both of which I've removed). The side collar sits down in the seal of the hub (no. 11) there is about 1mm of material sticking out past the seal.

Once I got the nut and lock washer off I tried to pull the cush drive off but it wouldn't budge. Then I took off the rear wheel and brake caliper and tried to tap out the spindle, then I soaked it in penetrating oil and tried to beat out the spindle without any luck.

I'll try this heat and ice thing tonight and put up some pictures. If that doesn't work I may end up removing the swingarm and try taking it somewhere. Thanks for the help offer, I'll keep that in mind!

Jaybird:

Yep I loosened the pinch bolt, I wasn't sure if that was binding something so I loosened it and tried rotating the eccentric but none of that seemed to do anything.



<bright colors to make this post seem more fun than it is

[hawksonfire]

Remove the axle with the cush attached this should give you a better view. the hub or cush assembly could be seized or dug into the splines....

[DefTrap]

Remove the axle with the cush attached this should give you a better view. the hub or cush assembly could be seized or dug into the splines....

Pretty sure you can't do that.

This is either a job for the experts or you'll just have to accept the parts are a write-off and bash the living daylights out of it. A rubber mallet is prolly going to do least damage and the cush is a fairly cheap s/h part. Belt it!

[LeftRightLeftThrottle]

Remove the axle with the cush attached this should give you a better view.

The "axle" is already out and does not attach to the eccentric. If you meant remove the "spindle," this is not physically possible, the spindle will only slide out of the eccentric on the wheel side. Unless I happen to have a dimensionally transcendent eccentric bearing carrier (small hole), the cush drive (big object) won't pass through it.

the hub or cush assembly could be seized or dug into the splines...

c.) The cush drive rubbers disintegrated long before I realized it and daily riding without the rubbers has welded the splines.
...
If_Then:

c.) I'm royally f*cked and I need to find a new swingarm unless there's a way to somehow press out the spindle. I don't see how given the shape of the swingarm.

[kip]

Wow. Well you have already done everything I had thought of. The part detail on the collar helped me understand more. Does the outer part (11) of the cush drive rotate a little on the spindle? Just curious. It would if the cush rubbers are worn out and if it wasn't seized to the spindle. That would narrow it down to the collar. I am guessing you have already gone through this thought process though . I would actually think if anything seized to the spindle it would be the inside of the cush (7) that has the splines. ... but I don't really know what I am talking about. I did have to work to seperate the halves of the cush drive (7,11), but I did that after I pulled the whole thing off the spindle.

Good luck man, let me know if I can help with anything. I could take the nuts/collar off of mine and take some pics (since it is immobile anyway) if that helps. I haven't staked it yet.

[NT696]

As Kip said: the cush driven splines are in part # 7. As I remember, they are brass. #7 is an aluminum part cast around a brass spline insert. The spindle is made of hardened steel. What may have happened is the splines have corroded together (dissimilar matals in a salt environnment) or somehow worn down so the splines 'hook' each other. (Maybe sand somehow got in there?) Either way, Part #7 is likely already F**ked. Dont worry about trying to save it or any of the seals. (The seals you can get at local bearing stores, the metric sizes are written on the rubber lip.)
If you can, use a large 3-jaw gear puller, (can be rented) to pull on the outside. The screw in the middle will press on the spindle. Dont put too much pressure on it, just enough to preload it. Then tap around the outer edge behind, to coax it off. You can use this method to get the outer shell of the cush drive off, if it already isnt off.
I hope this helps, let us know, and take pictures.

[jaybird]

If you need them - I have all the replacement parts with the exception of 20, 21 and a thin little washer that sits under #8. I have an extra swingarm as well.

[jaybird]

Come to think of it, I think I have a spare cush drive as well. Let me know what all you need - shank the parts that are fused, rid yourself of the headache and I'll hook you up with the parts you need to get that thing back on the road.

Jason

[hawksonfire]

Yeah yall are right I got Cornfused Maybe a relly large bearing puller? (Im not sure about the logistics as far a clearances to use this tool)

[hawksonfire]

I dont know if you did this but did you remove the sprocket from the hub, sometimes the tension caused by the sprocket with the chain on it wont let the hub slide off freely. Even if the chain is completely slacked out? Sounds like a mess, sorry youre having this much trouble....