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CARR691 lithium ion battery rectifier/regulator

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    CARR691 lithium ion battery rectifier/regulator

    I read on this forum about a specific lithium ion battery rectifier/regulator for the hawk gt. I believe you can order it at Hordpower by Rick's Motosport Electrics. I thought, this could be a good idea; i still have the oem rr but use a lithium ion battery by jmt (jmt hjtx9-fp). In theory i could overload the battery. I live in Europe, so I was interested in a comparable alternative without the trouble of Dutch Customs.

    Now i have been searching on the web trying to find an answer to this question: why is it mandetory to use a specific lithium ion battery charger, but is it no problem to use a lithium ion battery on a 30 year old motorcycle? Is the lithium ion battery circuit internally protected against +15V overload? If so, why the specific lithium ion battery charger?

    I have found no definitive answer to this question.

    I have been riding with this lithium ion battery for about 3 years now with no trouble; is this overloading-problem a myth?



    I noticed the site of Carmo-electronics (mentioned in another tread recently because they also manufacture the oem-CDI). Their site lists rr's specific for lithium ion batteries: CARR691. For the Hawk GT they list the CARR251 rr, which is a mosfet rr. So I asked them about the differance between the mosfet CARR691 (lithium ion battery compatable for the cbr) and the CARR251 (Hawk GT), the answer was capacity. They suggested to modify the CARR691 for the Hawk GT free of charge.

    So I went for it for ease of mind, and i must say: it fits and works perfectly. I have been riding several times last couple of weeks with high temperatures pushing the rpm's, the rr stays perfectly cool. If your interested, you can order the CARR691 mosfet rr directly and mention to modify it for a Hawk GT.

    It's not cheap but it's good piece of equipment (and for what I can understand from the web there are lot of fake "heavy duty rr's" floating around on ebay etc).

    Hope this helps anyone interested in reliable rr's.

    https://www.carmo.nl/index.php?main_...203vlqvse2s5g2
    Last edited by hnm; 2 Weeks Ago.
    88 Tempest Gray California Model, desmoged, Wilbers 640 rear shock, CBR600f3 front internals, F/R custom springs, SS Brake lines F/R lines through SSA, Nissin 3-pot F caliper, CB-1 front fender, Factory Pro Jet Stage 3, Ram-Air Pods, CBR600f3 clip-ons, Fuel Diablo MicroMini exhaust, 17T/44T F/R sprockets, CBR600f2 speedo, frinesi2's chainroller, Reload's framesliders, F-110/70 R-160/60 Michelin PR3

    #2
    Originally Posted by hnm View Post

    I have been riding with this lithium ion battery for about 3 years now with no trouble; is this overloading-problem a myth?
    I have never had a problem just putting the lithium battery in the bike. Maybe there is some thing that someone can find to say why you should not. But my opinion its a myth. Ive dont it too many times and for too long to be convinced there is a problem.
    Don't spend money and buy, spend time and learn.

    Comment


      #3
      Here's the issue. Lithium Ion batteries don't like to be overcharged. If your Hawk Regulator/Rectifier is healthy, it won't overcharge the battery, no problem. But when the little diodes and things fail after 30 years, they may allow charging at 14V or more. Now, on a lead acid battery, this just boils the battery, it fails, and you replace both components. Some cheaper Lithium Ion batteries don't have the internal circuitry to prevent the overcharge, and instead, they catch on fire. Really bad. (You could search the web, and you'll note that Harley-Davidsons are especially prone to this problem.) So, 1) buy the more expensive Lithium Ion batteries with internal circuitry to prevent this; or 2) get a Rick's R/R. I did the latter.

      Comment


        #4
        I was data driven. Here's the Hawk charging specs:
        Hawk Charging Specs.jpg
        Here's Antigravity's specs (ShoraI is the same, haven't looked at others)::
        AG Specs.jpg
        AG Warning.jpg
        Using a 30 year old RR designed for lead/acid batteries that has the potential to output 15.5V didn't sit well with me when there's an off the shelf solution. Nice write up hnm. That looks like a good alternative for European owners and as you say it's peace of mind.I can't tell you how devastated I'd be if my Hawk went up in smoke. However I do feel that more Harley owners should install lithium batteries immediately
        Attached Files

        Comment


          #5
          15.5V isn't really too much of a problem.

          Here are some facts from somebody not selling anything and too cheap to spend money unnecessarily and to much an enemy of the economy to encourage others to spend foolishly:

          A stock regulator when working should be putting out 13.6V. That won't even charge the Li battery fully. Li cells make 3.7V and the battery makes it (3.74) 14.8V. 14.5V will not damage a Li battery or even charge it fully.

          A lead-acid charger will not fully charge a Li battery also, unless you set it to a higher current (which is really achieved by a higher Voltage), and monitor it.

          A trickle charger for a lead acid battery is at nest a waste. Lis do NOT lose their charge when stored.

          A float charger will kill a Li battery.

          People are scared of Li battery fires with good reason. An electric car Li battery (like in a Tesla--but certainly NOT limited to) will burn for 24 hours if you don't extinguish it (with a whole lot of water.) But people also seem to think that electric trail bikes are such a great idea. I don't think forest fires are that great, but I personally haven't heard of anybody addressing this as an issue.

          If you really need piece of mind: put your super lightweight battery in a heavy metal box that will vent away from you and the seat and negate all thay weight savings. Or run a cut off switch.

          I still have more faith in something that has worked for 30 years than anything new being sold.

          If you notice something like faster turn signals, a stronger horn, brighter lights, really fast starter motor: shut it off and check stuff out -- like charging voltage. OR buy a voltmeter and wire it to the bike.

          I have only seen regulators on Hawks fail by undervoltage not over but I have seen it on a Suzuki. In that case the sulphur smell was a great warning signal. But that's not so say that Honda's won't overvolt, I've just seen way more the other way.

          A fully charged Li battery spins the starter motor so much faster than a lead acid that you'll think that you're plugged into a wall socket and feeding it 120-240 VAC. Of course, once you ride for a bit it will run down and spin it normal -- because the bike can only charge the Li just beyond half capacity. The big argument I see for using a proper Li calibrated RR is to actually use the Li fully.

          MOSFET regulators use transistors and are a better overall design, but not necessary on a stock Hawk.

          If you were looking for a support group you're barking up the wrong tree. This place is fulla enablers dude. - Shooter77us

          The bitterness of low quality lingers long after the thrill of a low price has gone. - RacerX450

          Comment


            #6
            Hey Bob, The Antigravity LiFePO4 cells are 3.2V nominal with a maximum voltage of 3.6V. On paper there's a potential problem using a stock Hawk RR so I mitigated against it and I don't feel in any way foolish about having done so. Cheers, Mike.

            Comment


              #7
              Yarp, remember not all Li batts are the same chemistry. Bike batts are typically LiFePO4, NOT what Tesla and others are using in cars. Far less prone to thermal runaway, and different voltages per cell.

              Comment


                #8
                I got some things inthat last post that I want to change, including pointing that out. & that the lofepos aren't supposed to thermally run away like the non fe li batts.

                I get 15 minutes of good internet every 4 days and it's on a mobile phone. I didn't want to be a dick and delete my post, but it should be rewritten. I'll get to it in a week.

                If you were looking for a support group you're barking up the wrong tree. This place is fulla enablers dude. - Shooter77us

                The bitterness of low quality lingers long after the thrill of a low price has gone. - RacerX450

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally Posted by ParcNHawk View Post
                  I got some things inthat last post that I want to change, including pointing that out. & that the lofepos aren't supposed to thermally run away like the non fe li batts.

                  I get 15 minutes of good internet every 4 days and it's on a mobile phone. I didn't want to be a dick and delete my post, but it should be rewritten. I'll get to it in a week.
                  Why so soon? More than once a month is sufficient these days, right?

                  Engaging safety squints -> WW#Store

                  wwresto.com

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