Hawk Geometry questioned once again....

[Logicus]

Hey all, I was reading about the setup on the hawk, namely the clipons and rearsets, etc... I myself am 6'3" and ~275 lbs... so I'm sure I put mine through it's paces when I ride... I tried the clipons under the triple tree, and while it was great for the curves, I live 50 miles away from everyone I know and have to ride on one of those horribly straight expressway things, so it was murder on the wrists (I think I may actually put a spare set of clipons under though, and make it to where I can just switch the bars from upper to lower). Anyway, I have heard many times that the hawk can generally handle the twisties better than the supersport bikes.... well, my freind and I were out cruising as he just got his fatboy back with a rebuilt screaming eagle engine... man that thing is fast - we were on KY State Route 22 and we were being passed by some sportbike riders and I was usually riding a bit slower since my friend was tailing me, but these guys wouldn't pass on the straights, even when we were obviously pulled over to the right to let them pass - they would wait until the VERY blind curvy sections and blast around in those (keeping in mind this is all double yellow line territory) so the first couple get past, and the second couple are doing the same thing the first of which got in front of me, and I got a little mad (and I guess a little stupid) and started to tangle with them in the curves. I stayed between them through two good sets of curves but in a fairly tight right hander that got super tight as you got into it, I stayed pretty hard on the throttle and was just starting to feel my shoe scrape the ground and i felt the rearend start to go wide on me, pulling the front as well. I felt like I was in my camaro for a second! The other guy stayed behind me through all of that and on the next straight passed me slowly giving me a "thumbs up" for one reason or another - jack ass ... anyway, needless to say, I was like a 1/2 mile ahead of my friend and had no problem backing off for a little while after all that.. But why did the Hawk start to slide? I have Metzler Sportec M-1's, but I still have about a 1/2 inch chicken strip on each side... is it my size that caused it to fall out? the road itself was quite perfect with no stains or gravel and I was quite off of my bike, low and inside.... the guy that got past me quickly was on a cbr600rr - not more than a year old, but the guy who had to work at getting by me was on a very nice looking gsxr1100xx. Probably why he wasn't so eager to get around... but I stayed on the cbr's tail pretty tight. I dunno... I was dissappointed about having to back off. Thanks for any feedback.

[KDNYC]

Suspension?

New tires?

Maybe something you missed in the road?

[Logicus]

What would be a decent choice for aftermarket rear shock for my big butt? I got to thinking... the front forks have race tech springs, but the rear is stock.. maybe dipping into the curve, the shock compressed and bottomed, "pushing" the rear tire out?

[jaysun0ne]

are you sure it was a slide?

im a big hawk rider also
and i have run with all the 1liter bikes in the twisties with no problem.
i run stock f2 fronts with a cbr 900 shock in the rear (needs a rebuild bad)and i always use dunlops.

there was this one time i was fallowing a civic and im still not sure but i think i got the rear end to slide around one turn. felt really strange but good at the same time. it was under the shade of a tree so the pavment might have been colder on that turn. but i never had it happen to me again. other than that i have never lost traction and i have hit some pretty tight turns pretty damb fast. also there are alot of track riders that have never done a controled slide so thats why i asked if your sure it was a slide.

[Logicus]

It was definitely a slide... I started into the turn and as I rounded in like the previous several, this one suddenly got really tight and I leaned further into to it without changing throttle at all trying to keep from straying into the other lane; my fear was that I was gonna slide right out and take out suzuki boy at the same time. I never thought about the ground temp - doah! - it was pretty damn hot and sunny out and a lot of the road was in a canopy of tree cover that was on and off. Hmmm... that just may have been it. I'm just sad that i was dragging my foot and still had some tire left (me and my dumb big size 15's!). Really great ride, though! Came up with some pics... need to get a mount so I can get some through the curves.. (yeah, I know, hanging out with a bunch of Harleys.... my friend's crazy though, and tries his best to hit the curves hard and fast ... I think he's taken about 1/4" off of each of his footboards... haha... and I don't know anyone else with a sportbike...)


Don't make fun of the center patch - I gotta drive on a bunch of expressway to get anywhere. I live in the boonies.


Cruisin behind my friend on his Fatboy...


My Hawk hangin' out with a bunch of other V-Twins. If you look, I think you can see drool coming from some of the H-D's mouths!

[69Falcon]

It might actually be the center patch on your rear and the transition when you leaned in really hard. The tires that came with my Hawk had a really bad center patch, and were pretty much bald all the way around. When I'd lean into a turn I'd get a weird wobble at the rear as it transitioned off the center patch. A new set of Metzler M3 have cleared it up.

[Hordpower]

Looks to me like the centerstand hit and levered the bike off the tires. It's obviously ground down. Time to ditch that and/or get a Penske shock on the back!

[Doc]

I have a question... Where is your helmet?


Good point JD. I hadn't thought of that but that would do it.


I have yet to slide my Hawk, although I do have some nice sticky Michelins on there.

I will post a tire pic later.

[Logicus]

I wear a HJC lid and a Joe Rocket Jacket... the helmet you can see on the ground on the other side of my rear wheel in the pic w/the Harleys. Still saving for either Draggin Jeans or other leathers and boots. My friend, though, I cannot get to wear a helmet... he's been riding for about 15 years and wont. Sigh.

Thanks for the info, though... putting new tires on first week of July (my local Honda shop is packed till then.) Thanks again! Any Hawkers on here live near Northern Kentucky? I have yet to see another Hawk anywhere!

[brewsy]

Logic,
might be an obvious one but how do you put your feet on the pegs?
If you are cruising then its fine to ride with the pegs in the arch of your foot.
I find though that when I'm getting my boogie on its best to put the ball of your foot on the pegs, especially on the foot that is on the inside of the corner.
Does two things, a) stops you dragging it on the floor and b) makes it easier to lean off and get your leg/knee out.
Also if you read Code and other coaches you should be trying to keep your weight on the outside foot anyway and 'hook' the outside knee into the tank.

marc

[Doc]

How good of rider was the guy on the 600 and the 1000?

[Stupidhawk007]

Sliding

Last race weekend I slid my hawk around all over the place! Unfortunately due to shagged tires, though I still have a small chicken strip on each side also, on slicks no less! I was scared at first, but soon learned to control it pretty well. Hawks slide well.

I had sportec M3's on my superhawk when I powerslid the bike into turn one a few years back. I had no intentions to do so, and soon after I laid it down in turn 3. I don't like Metzlers.........

[Logicus]

To several of you, actually.... I haven't been paying much attention lately due to work.

The guys on the other bikes were pretty with it - completely decked out in full bike-matching leathers/helmets/boots, etc... they were really flyin' - 22 is a super curvy little road - which I also had only been on once coming the opposite way - and, like I said, I was just cruising with my buddy on his Fatboy (though he'll give'er all she's got and has toasted a couple of sets of foot boards-I don't know why he doesnt' just take 'm off !!) and one pair of guys came from nowhere and blasted right by us before we even noticed them - in the midst of a set of three full 180 degree curves and my hawk was reading about 60-65 (about 10mph opt.) and I saw the second set coming up and decided to play. I lost my freind in the rear view and waited up, pulling to the right of the lane to let the other guys pass.... they slowed down too - to about 45 with me until the road in front of us practically dissappears into the trees. A little disgusted, I said screw it and took off into the curves... the first one didn't flinch and took the oncoming traffic lane into the left hander and zoomed by me at about the apex and got in front of me but didn't really pull ahead more than 6-7 lengths and the other guy dropped to my speed just behind me but also in the left hand lane... I think it would've sucked for all of us if a car came around... and he stayed behind me, I think trying to pass me as we drove pretty hard through a couple of curves until the next curve which was a right hand that makes almost a u shape and grades uphill as you go through it.... but it tightens as you get about halfway into it and kinda disappears to your right and behind you ... well, I leaned before I even thought I really needed to get out off the bike and looking back, I still think it may have been the the compression of the rear shock (still a stocker I think) to it's limit hard into the turn then the energy stored up pushed the rear out a little, pulling the front with it some too. Once it settled, he cruised past on the next straight... I was pretty pissed but it was also pretty fun thinking about it now. That was probably about the hardest I'd pushed my hawk. It always feels very confident and solid, but I felt like if I didn't get off the throttle, I would have slid on through the left lane and off the side. or at least slid into his lane possibly hitting him... if I had to guess, I would say I pulled about a foot wider than I originally planned on going through the curve. I'm still not the world's most confident rider by any means, but it felt like I ran out of traction. Those guys all the way through were VERY fluid and VERY confident and prabably had ridden than road a thousand times. Once past, they dissappeared faster than they appeared.

and yes, I too get my feet up on the pegs (on the balls of my feet) pretty much any time other than when taking off and shifting through the gears. It's actually more comfortable for my legs and for how low the handle bars are. I have big freakin feet though - size 15 - so 1-2" of my shoe still hangs off the side of the peg and every once in a while I'll feel it drag - but not often with the rear sets on there..

Could also have been the sportec m-1's on there.. I really haven't investigated a lot over tires, but I think I've heard that the m-1's aren't that great either.

Thanks a bunch everyone for the questions/comments... I've had more fun with this bike than any other so far, and am planning on having a lot more!

I am super sad today though, as I waited all week (actually since last tuesday) to ride today (up the same previously mentioned route) and lo and behold we have rain for the first time in just as many days once I walked out of work.

!SHAZBOT!

[theclaxton]

By looking at the pic of your rear tire you are way underdamped. You need to pick up a new rear shock. I have an Ohlins. Ohlins and Penske are going to be your best bet. I weigh about 155 and have never slid my bike. At track days I'm keeping up with all the modern bikes in the corners and am starting to drag other parts on the ground. (My stock headers on the right and the kickstand on the left.

I would agree with Hord that you were dragging the centerstand, that was one of the first things that I removed.

Here's a pic of my tire - 160 BT-014


What spring rate are you running in the front?
I'm running .9 kg/mm front with an 1093 lb/in spring on the back
The front is a little stiff for the rear right now.

FYI, GSX-R 1100s are gay

[Logicus]

Well, first off, I changed out the Metz with a Pirelli Diablo Strada in back... I have come to realize the the m-1's that were on it are VERY hard... maybe it sat a while before I bought it??? So the Pirelli has made quite the difference at least in how confident the rear end feels. I've ordered a front matching Diablo and expect the same results from that. I am also ordering either the Penske or the Progressive shock(I'll likely not be doing any track days or other racing). The front forks do have Race Tech Springs but I have no clue as to the specs. Is there any way to check? I would say making the suspension right will be the biggest improvement.

Thanks