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    Please, once and for all.

    I want to build my Hawk to be a canyon carving dream. It does not need to win shows or be a trailer "queen". My Hawk will be the bitch in the back of the bar just waiting to break a pool cue over some Gixxer owner's head. I have no desire to own the straights or I would not have chosen the Hawk as my next bike. Any money that goes into the Hawk this summer will be put towards a perfect platform of suspension.

    I have read pretty much all the threads on this site and love every minute of it but no objective answers really. So...I was wondering if I am assuming correctly about the following matters.

    Besides the bling factor...

    Is there any actual advantage to swapping front ends or rear wheels?

    FRONT

    Suspension - Besides stiffness I think that stock forks with Emulators and Springs and Silkolene should be just as good right?

    Brakes - I can't imagine needing anything more than Lenac's kit...right?

    Tires - Swapping to an F2 wheel gives me any tire I want on the front, right?

    Don't get me wrong, front end swaps on the Hawk are sexy as hell but I'd be prone to think it is not going to offer anything besides bling. Maybe someday I will be rich and do that stuff to my baby.

    REAR

    Tire Choice - This seems to be the main advantage here but with street-legal motards gaining so much popularity I think we will see more sport tires in the 150 and 160 sizes.

    Wheel Width - Seems overkill for the Hawk to have anything wider than 160. Even Suzuki is realizing that wider is not always better and reduced the sizes from 190 to 180 on some models for the new year.
    "Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow"

    http://www.hpwcycleservice.com

    #2
    Re: Doc please, once and for all.

    well, you have a choice.

    you can take the stock front forks, and put emulators in there so that they're ALMOST as good as cartegage forks... if you're not going to tweak and fiddle with it, its close enough to call it even.
    you'll need the springs to match.. and you'll need to cut some preload spacers or get some caps that let you adjust the preload just right.

    add all that up, and compare it to the price of forks from a heavier, modern bike. assuming you do the work yourself, the hawk stuff should come as cheaper.
    i cant say this doesnt work. there are people who go alot faster then i'll ever go, doing just this.




    for brakes, you'll want to upgrade.. you'll need the wheel, rotors, calipers, brackets and a CB fork lower (or some other one)... or maybe just the rotor and caliper.. depending on what you go with.

    compare the costs off all that to the frontend including the forks first mentioned... assuming you buy the frontend complete off someone, the prices are still really close... hawk stuff modded is still generally cheaper.


    front tire... IMO you need the 120 front.. just because of the availible sticky tires for it.. you'll never keep up with CBRs or SVs if you're sliding the front end out on harder compound tires... while you're at it.. dont skimp.. get something sticky sticky sticky... right now im using dragon supercorsa pros.. best mod i ever did.. sticky tires!
    this rim upgrade also lets you have two front rotors... for great, CONTROLABLE brakes.
    my old hawk brake/tire combo could stoppie if everything was just right and i did it perfect. my current one is a light one finger affair that i can do on wet pavement, sandy driveways, ect.. (i dont reccomend doing that, im just saying its now possible)

    on a side note.. you dont need dual 320mm RC51 brakes... or anything that big.. its stupidly overkill... and frankly, while i dont feel the diff, im sure it would turn even better if the rotors were smaller/lighter. less gyroscopic effect.... then again... i fuggin LOVE my brakes.


    ok, anyway, my point of all this means you endup with one of two bikes.
    a bike with a modern fork/wheel/brakes and aftermarket gauges.

    or a hawk with modified forks, diffrent wheel, brakes/caliper bracket/ect..

    they'll both behave about the same... if you buy the frontend off a bike cheap, you get it all at once, and its reasonably priced.
    if you piece together the frontend of another bike, it'll kill ya on price.
    if you piece together the hawk, you can do it a little at a time, and it behaves just as good.

    so since you only care abotu the end handling result, it comes down to:
    do you have all the cash now for a frontend, or do you want to do it bit by bit with the hawk stuff modded?



    as for the rear.. leave it. that rim is fine. stick a 160 on there and race all you want.. i dont ever want a larger tire, unless i need it.. sure it looks cool, but i want something with enough curve to the tire that the bike curves over.



    btw, something you didnt mention....if you can afford it, i would get the aftermarket shock. no question about it...

    Comment


      #3
      Yeah, aftermarket shock was no question!
      "Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow"

      http://www.hpwcycleservice.com

      Comment


        #4
        Originally Posted by hpwcycleservice
        Yeah, aftermarket shock was no question!
        did you catch my point in deciding between the two?

        Comment


          #5
          Yeah I do, I do a lot of suspension work here at the shop and some by mail order so I am pretty sure I can get them damping pretty good.

          I was mostly worried about losing some front end stiffness if I stay with stock forks. I was also concerned about brakes and whether dual rotors was overkill.

          Thanks for the legthy response, I appreciate the time.
          "Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow"

          http://www.hpwcycleservice.com

          Comment


            #6
            I wouldn't say you need to worry about stiffness with stock forks. I also wouldn't worry about the brakes, especially if you go the Lenac route. Dual rotors will arguably increase a. the unsprung mass, and b. the gyroscopic forces. Both bad things as you no doubt know.

            I have to disagree with the 120 tyre being 'necessary'

            On the road, normal sport tyres (of which plenty are available in 110 widths) are plenty grippy. I don't have any trouble staying ahead of most bikes in the twisties on my 110 tyre and I've never run anything stickier than regular Pirelli Diablos. In fact they gave silly grip levels, even when cold, something you won't get from the stickiest tyres. And before those I was running sport touring tyres, and keeping up with a well ridden Ducati 916, and killing ZX6R, ZX9R, etc. Mr Dude obviously has a different perspective from mine, but I thought I'd throw my Two cents in.

            The only real disadvantage I can see to going the emulators and springs route is it's not as easy to make adjustments. But then, once you've got them set up, you shouldn't need to fiddle, so...

            HTH

            E

            Comment


              #7
              I am thinking about the standard Diablos so funny you mention that...
              "Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow"

              http://www.hpwcycleservice.com

              Comment


                #8
                Doc?.... Why the hell are you asking me?
                BIKES: Honda: RC31 Racebike/ NT650 Streetbike, DUCATI: None at the moment.
                Former MSF Rider Coach / Trackday Instructor/ Expert Roadracer #116
                "I'd rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow."

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Doc please, once and for all.

                  Originally Posted by hpwcycleservice
                  I want to build my Hawk to be a canyon carving dream. It does not need to win shows or be a trailer "queen". My Hawk will be the bitch in the back of the bar just waiting to break a pool cue over some Gixxer owner's head. I have no desire to own the straights or I would not have chosen the Hawk as my next bike. Any money that goes into the Hawk this summer will be put towards a perfect platform of suspension.

                  I have read pretty much all the threads on this site and love every minute of it but no objective answers really. So...I was wondering if I am assuming correctly about the following matters.

                  Besides the bling factor...

                  Is there any actual advantage to swapping front ends or rear wheels?

                  FRONT

                  Suspension - Besides stiffness I think that stock forks with Emulators and Springs and Silkolene should be just as good right?
                  Uh No. You get more adjustability with a better front end. Emulators and oil is good but full adjustability is better.

                  Originally Posted by hpwcycleservice
                  Brakes - I can't imagine needing anything more than Lenac's kit...right?
                  Lenac's kit is great but take that $300 and put it into an upgraded front, adjustability, dual disks, better wheel/tire (as to your question below) you get current rubber with a 17 inch front.

                  Originally Posted by hpwcycleservice
                  Tires - Swapping to an F2 wheel gives me any tire I want on the front, right?

                  Don't get me wrong, front end swaps on the Hawk are sexy as hell but I'd be prone to think it is not going to offer anything besides bling. Maybe someday I will be rich and do that stuff to my baby.

                  REAR

                  Tire Choice - This seems to be the main advantage here but with street-legal motards gaining so much popularity I think we will see more sport tires in the 150 and 160 sizes.

                  Wheel Width - Seems overkill for the Hawk to have anything wider than 160. Even Suzuki is realizing that wider is not always better and reduced the sizes from 190 to 180 on some models for the new year.
                  Yep, we use 160's on the track. NT650Hawk is FAST! and if he only uses a 160 then it is good enough for me. Anything bigger is heavier and just for "bling".

                  As with all advice I post it is from listening and learning from people on these boards who are ALOT smarter than me. A couple of them have already posted here.
                  BIKES: Honda: RC31 Racebike/ NT650 Streetbike, DUCATI: None at the moment.
                  Former MSF Rider Coach / Trackday Instructor/ Expert Roadracer #116
                  "I'd rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow."

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Want to know a little secret? The absolute fastest dudes I've ever seen on Hawks have been on ones that have been closest to stock.I mean like emulators,stainless lines and a shock in back.Trust me- a Hawk with simple mods is a VERY capable bike in the right hands and I'll be the first one to say: me on a GSXR front end/Marchesini shod/minimalist 700cc Hawk can't come anywhere close to staying with somebody like Bama Bob or Henry down in the real twisties.

                    Go for bling if you want it but a lot of mods get oversold.I tend to like how nimble a Hawk is on 110/150-60's...but since I'm slow,like some blingitude to change the conversation.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You don't need dual front brakes. X raced my bike this weekend and he was outbreaking bigger bikes in practice with a stock caliper. (and ran lap times almost 7 seconds faster than me) The brake sucks in general though because it's not enough brake when you really need it, and it's got poor feel, and that's why I'm buying a Lenac kit off of a friend putting his street bike back to stock to sell it because he likes racing too much. His race bike has a gixxer front end and the dual brakes don't allow him to brake slowly enough. He's ALWAYS overbreaking into corners so he's going to pull one of the rotors and calipers and save the 20 pounds. What's left for a brake is essentially the Lenac kit. You can get good rubber for the street in stock sizes. I ran street compound on the track until I was ready to step it up a little.

                      I've got F3 upper tubes on stock hawk lowers, and I think that works just peachy. Get the right springs and whatnot and have your suspension set up by someone who knows what they're doing and then leave it alone. For street riding, once you start fiddling with all the knobs without knowing what you're doing it can really mess you up. Suspension set-up is a dark art that the little of which I understand is only the surface, and if you start asking questions, EVERYBODY has an opinion and most of them will probably be wrong. Do your research first.
                      '88 Hawk - Street '89 Hawk - Track '67 Fiat 500 - Luigi follow only the Ferraris

                      Comment


                        #12
                        EVERYBODY has an opinion
                        Ain't that the truth
                        Gino
                        Chain Roller

                        NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE PREDICTABILITY OF STUPIDITY

                        2012 CCS LRRS ULSB Champion
                        2012 CCS LRRS P89 Champion
                        2008 CCS ULSB National Champion
                        LRRS HAWK GT Racer CCS Expert #929
                        ECK RACING

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I agree with what has been said about the stock brake being more than enough. Put a braided brake line on and go for it. my harley, which has much more weight than the hawk also has only one disc. It stops fine from any speed. Besides, with the hawk you actually don't have to brake much- which keeps the brakes cooler and less likely to fade, which is where dual disks could help.
                          '88 Hawk GT
                          '89 Harley FXSTC
                          2008 Yamaha V-Star 1300 tourer

                          http://www.hawkgtforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=948

                          "...my performance ain't perfect, but its loud, and its fast..." -Widespread Panic

                          Comment


                            #14
                            yeaaaa....Hawks really don't need brakes on the track. they just make you go slower

                            tis true that i am going to be pulling one of my rotors and calipers to see how it all works out. at the moment even the smallest modulation of the brake lever is just too much. dual 320mm iron brembo's and dual 4 pots with carboncarbon pads is a bit overkill i reckon, but we'll see how i like the single rotor setup in a couple weeks.

                            when i bolted up the Lenac kit to my street hawk it was amazing to see how much braking there is in that setup. i think it was at this year's NCHR where i realized that kit is probably the max anyone *needs* for a Hawk. there are definitely quite a few racers out there (or were out there at some point) that ran dual disks, but i would think that the F2 setup is probably the max you would need if you wanted the 2 disk. dual 278mm rotors (i could be wrong on that measurement) and dual 2 pots with the right pads should be plenty.

                            if you are running on the street and want sticky in stock sizes, i've been running pilot powers (and so has Jen) on my racebike up until this past weekend (stepping it up next weekend). those tires come in stock sizes, have great stick, warm up, and work quite well in the rain.

                            in regards to suspension, don't guess around. find a local (reputable) suspension shop and pay for them to evaluate and set everything up to your weight/riding style. thats what i did, cost me $70 and i haven't touched a thing since. if you end up needing a new shock, JD has a few to choose from.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              my brakes are overkill.
                              very, very overkill.



                              but they make me giggle when i use them, so its worth it.

                              Comment

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